My Lai Massacre: Lt William Calley Apologises More than 40 Years after Vietnam
More than 40 years after a massacre that appalled the world, the former US army officer convicted of organising mass killings in My Lai during the Vietnam war has made a public apology.
Former lieutenant William Calley said: "There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel remorse for what happened that day in My Lai.
Former Army Lt. William Calley speaks to a Kiwanis Club in
Columbus, Ga. where he spoke publicly for the first time about the infamous My
Lai massacre in Vietnam in 1968. (Photo: AP)Mr Calley was addressing members of the Kiwanuis Club in Greater Columbus, Georgia, in remarks delivered on Wednesday but which have only now emerged.
The killings that occurred on March 16, 1968 in the South Vietnamese hamlet of My Lai prompted widespread outrage around the world. They are also credited with advancing the end of the Vietnam War because they significantly undercut US public support for the war effort.
The massacre began when men of Charlie Company, under the command of Calley, opened fire on civilians during a "search and destroy" mission in My Lai and neighboring villages.
The targets of the killings were mainly old men, women and children - all unarmed - as most younger members of the community were working in the fields.
The exact toll of the massacre still remain in dispute. But US estimates suggest that between 347 and 504 unarmed citizens were massacred that day.
Although a commission of inquiry recommended charges should be brought against 28 officers and two non-commissioned officers, Calley was the only US soldier convicted over the killings at My Lai. He was sentenced to life in prison, later reduced to house arrest.
A survivor of the killings said he welcomed Calley's public apology for his role the atrocity.
"It's a question of the past and we accept his apologies, although they come too late," Pham Thanh Cong, director of a small museum at My Lai, told AFP by telephone.
"However, I prefer that he send his apologies to me in writing or by email."
Mr Cong, who saw his mother and brothers killed in the massacrem, said: "I want him to come back... and see things here. Maybe he has now repented for his crimes and his mistakes committed more than 40 years ago."
50 Comments so far
Hide AllWomen, children, old folks...
How can anyone get past that? Women...children... old folks...! Calley and every man who pulled a trigger that day should have faced a firing squad long ago.
To the majority of you bloggers: It amazes me how you all consider yourselves pacifists and anti-war, which I respect, but you continue to express in your blogs hatred, vile, and bully like comments. It is no wonder with people like you there is so much hatred and bigotry in our world. I guess that makes all of you a part of the problem.
newt,
Who said we were all pacifists? Who said we were all anti-war? We are anti-massacre, we are anti-terrorist. This Jack-the-Ripper behavior of Calley is what causes anti-American sentiment all over the globe. How absurd it is for you to bemoan criticism of a man who behaved like Hitler or Stalin or Mao and who cut down hundreds only to assuage his evil black heart. I haven't heard you bemoan the few children survivors who grew up in the ashes of this state-sponsored genocide.
There is something mentally wrong with you, imho. You have no humanity about you.
All I can fathom is that you must surely be a right-wing Christian NeoCon who can overlook any kind of villainous behavior as long as your smelly old man in a robe, who pretends to have God's ear tells you that "It's just God's Will".
Onward Christian Soldier! Out of touch with Reality.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
First off, I am not a right wing Republican Christian NEO Con (I am just a person with an open mind with respect for others) Second, I did not say all were pacifists and anti-war bloggers, the word I used was majority. Third, there is a difference between criticism and being cruel and mean.
It amazes me that you think we're all of one mind on the issue of pacifism or hatred. I'd challenge you to find an example of a 'good' war, or a 'bad' peace. The fact of the vietnam war was that it wasn't necessary, those who died did so for no justifiable reason. Those who launched and prosecuted the war have never been held to account for their actions, those who became scapegoats for following orders got their wrists slapped. Those who have consciences suffer because of what they did, or what they saw.
You are quite right that all humans are part of the problem, none of us seem able to stop wars before they begin. We can blame the military, the gov't, society, corporations or the various religious leaders for whipping us into a frenzy of bloodlust. But in the end the cycle of war, terrorism and violence is one that never seems to end...
...and hatred starts with the individual.
So, an officer does the same thing in Afghanistan - orders a massacre knowing full well that he is ordering the death of non-combatants - goes on trial, is convicted to house arrest, predictably converts to "born again" Christianity and expresses remorse and the cycle repeats. Let the healing begin (until the next time.) The cycle has to be broken. Healing is not always the best solution. Sometimes a wound needs to be kept in the consciousness. We don't need to heal the wounds perpetrated by the military machine. We need to continue to be outraged and use them to energize ourselves. They also need to be specified and not brought into the soft focus of generalities.
Healing is greatly overrated at this time. I'm probably in the minority here, but as we are still killing people, massacring people, I find "remorse" a bit disingenuous without any kind of condemnation of current or past crimes. Just the kind of teary stuff our wishy-washy society loves because it doesn't require any action or going to places we'd prefer not to go. I wish he'd have just shut up. If he had sufficient self-condemnation, that's what he would have done.
Nevertheless, his remarks appear to have not been particularly for public consumption, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in that respect. Wonder what it felt like to those Vietnamese to see their mothers and children killed before taking a bullet themselves? Remorse doesn't cut it. Nothing cuts it.
I think that this soldier - if he is sincere - should be commended for his expression , openly, of remorse. THAT is part of being a human being.
his actions and those of the leaders and others that perpetrated and perpetuate TO THIS DAY - war crimes that the USA commits against weaker nations, mainly BECAUSE they are weaker, as a bully nation always does, can not EVER be condoned or forgotten and by themselves are unforgiveable.
YET a person that has committed them is STILL a human being FIRST before anything else , and by expressing remorse at what he has done .. SHOULD be forgiven.
the vietnamese, who as a people, were the victims of USA imperial designs and meddling - and, crudely and barbarically, in order to show the world "who is boss" - are generally believed to have been forgiving towards americans and hold the american PEOPLE with a benevolent and gentle regard - which is a sign of the ability to show MAGNANIMITY of spirit EVEN towards those that had wronged them .
the vietnamese wanted NOTHING more nor less than that others do not try to dominate or conquer them.
that is why -0 in 1975 - after the americans "lost" - CHINA tried to take advantage and intruded INTO vietnamese territory - as part of their long history of dislike for each other ....
and the vietnamese, like they did with the French and belgians and russians as well as the americans responded the SAME WAY :
they fought ferociously DESPITE the RUIN of the 30 years of war from the french on to the USA -
and put the :"BIG northern neighbor" in its place....practically HUMILIATING china in a rapid loss .
what is the lesson FOR americans?
americans were merely another among others that had tried to meddle in vietnam's culture and affairs thinking it was some small country and weak and backward that could just be stepped on....disrespecting its natural identity as a people that just wanted to be a neighbor but not coerced into someone else's ideas of how to exist...
and this soldier's remorse can hopefully be one small way towards continued healing and respect for each other as countries and people.
Here's something hypothetical:
I wonder how many people in the US have made million$, if not billion$ in profits from fighting so-called wars in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan? These people who fund think-tanks that come up with plausible explanations for war. Now, how many uber-rich folks are there in this world who would use their wealth and political connections to pull some stunt, say, fill a plane with 300 innocent American men, women and children, fly them into some war-zone where the US military is using drone predators or carpet bombing, then have these innocent people stand there and sing "Give Peace a Chance"?
Is it just me, or does it seem that once one has more money than imaginable, that war is just another inconvenience like having to wipe one's butt after a BM?
people like that, americans or otherwise, as investors or cheering choir are like murderers using other's hands to do the deed.
they murder fellow americans who are conscripted in so many ways , largely because they are not rich and see "killing in uniform for god and country" as a JOB and means of earning a LIVING< ironically enough, and murderes of foreign people.
it is amazing how these kind of people probably can wash their hands every day -- and not see BLOOD instead...the blood of others on their hands...enriched with $$$$$$$$$$$. or that they breathe, eat, sleep , laugh and drink and defecate
at the cost of so much blood and suffering of countless others.
I am 72 years old and I've travelled the world, read a lot of history and witnessed a lot in my life time. I can honestly say I am truly 'grateful' to be an American, but I hesitate to say that I am 'proud' to be an American.
This country is much like an individual with faults and virtues. I believe that our people are much more virtuous than our businesses and our government.
Most people of the world say they like Americans but do not like our government.
P.S. There is no way that an apology is adequate to assuage a human massacre.
MASSACRE - The indescriminate, merciless killing of a number of human beings.
to me, ONE of countless examples of what a "true american" is in terms of being exemplary to any other human being in the sense of feeling compassion and empathy towards others is
the story of a BOY - a mere 12 or so year old boy - i think in california -
whose father was losing so much business as a contractor due to the housing and building and mortgage crisis fed by the big banks and the system .
as the father was struggling to feed his family , his earnings from loss of contracts and clients unable to pay him thousands upon thousands of dollars - his son decided to
make lemonade , put up a stand in the streets, and sell his toys...to help out...saying:
"they are just toys anyway ..and you can't eat them"....
BUT the fact is - this boy had DONE this kind of thing before, for OTHERS...earning hundreds of dollars through his lemonade stand - to contribute to those that had lost their homes and livelihoods and relatives in the Katrina disaster, and last year's huge fires in california.
how can this be? that a MERE BOY has more intelligence and can COUNT money and YET place his VALUES truly upon being a HUMAN being -- while the leadership, the institutions, the general culture is so consumed with selfishness and greed?
and yet -- it is THAT boy and others like him that , imo, represents the TRUE american character at its very best.
he measures his life by what he can SACRIFICE and GIVE rather than what he can ACQUIRE.
and he is just a CHILD.
it is with individuals like that -- when one can say TRULY
if one believes:
"GOD BLESS AMERICA".
you are absolutely RIGHT about ordinary americans.
WHEN ordinary americans are showed or have the chance to see how BLESSED they truly are -- albeit , much of that "prosperous" blessedness has been built upon monstrous foreign policies designed to "manipulate" global conditions to advance the USA's "true purpose...to gather as much of the world's resources unto ourselves at the expense of others" (General Smedley Butler, US Marines, 1933) --
and see that the "world is NOT" about JUST americans...americans can be among the most personally generous, giving, friendly and sincere people.
when americans see in the proper way, that their own prosperity is HARDLY to be charged ONLY to "american ingenuity or hardwork" and its EXCLUSIONARY mentality, about how OTHER cultures and peoples TOO have their OWN way of ingenuity and hard work --
americans REMEMBER their humanity, understand that things are LESS about being "american" as opposed to others, than sharing COMMON needs and hopes with other people for a decent life, and are among the most open with their hearts and minds and generosity for the sheer Moral and ethical RIGHTNESS of sharing their good fortune compared to others without expecting anything in return...but just for the joy of knowing they can help alleviate the needs of others less fortunate than they.
of THIS - as a person born in another country , i am CONVINCED , is the "true" american spirit that is all too often submerged under corrupting "ideals" made out to be "american values".
To narrow it down to a Calley-like situation. Say a lieutenant in an invading force ordered the massacre (yes, Calley gave the order) of 400 or 500 unarmed civilians consisting mainly of women, children, and old folks in Anywhere, USA. Does anyone honestly think that a few decades later, U.S. citizens would reasonably say, "Let's forgive and forget. He's done his time. Time to move on." No, there are limits to forgiveness and there *should* be. That other Calley should be a permanent monument and example of "no-man's land", where no one should ever go, a place to be shunned forever.
Let's not get all fuzzy logically by saying those who fashioned the war should be the ones on which to place the blame. The crimes of the leaders in no way extirpate the crimes of someone who orders ("Shoot them down, kill them...women, children, the aged...everybody. Then burn the village..." ) a massacre.
Ted, I think you are entirely off-base in the "self-righteousness" angle. Are you saying, we would have done it in the same circumstances, therefore we are in error in finding it difficult to forgive Lt. Calley? I think we have some legitimate issues to discuss. What does self-righteousness have to do with it? I'm genuinely perplexed.
Chuck said: "Can you blame citizens of the occupied country for hating us? Then consider what you would do if foreign soldiers invaded your sanctuary [home] killing men, women, and helpless American children."
Bingo. Well said, as it exemplifies a ray of reason and light that for some unknown reason seems to elude so many Americans. Those sentences display a trait which so many people in this country seem to be bereft of and that is the trait called empathy. As I stated earlier, when one enters the military it does not mean that one leaves one's brains behind in the civilian world. The point, of course, is that the soldiers and the civilian contractors [who should more properly be called mercenaries] should certainly recognize that they are taking part in not only an illegal but also immoral occupations of countries that never threatened anyone in these United States. As Chuck correctly notes, if foreign soldiers began attacking in this country, then the Americans who would be fighting against those foreign soldiers would be correctly called freedom fighters. But of course Americans do not wish to view the Afghans and the Iraqis in that way because they are fighting against the Americans and even though they are the invaders and occupiers, their fellow countrymen must always be looked upon as being the good guys.
It should not take a military draft in order to get the American people to finally say NO to the American war machine. Despite the popular misconception, as David Cortright points out in his book Soldiers in Revolt, the majority of people who comprised the GI movement during the Vietnam War were not draftees as one would have supposed but rather enlistees. How one has entered the military today should have no effect upon their powers of reason and intellect. Thankfully there have been some in the military today who have spoken out against the occupations such as those in the IVAW [Iraq Veterans Against the War] and other people such as Lt. Ehren Watada. But a hell of a lot more of them need to speak out in order to send a clear message to the military that they will no longer be used as cannon fodder and no longer be part of an occupying force that is suppressing and brutalizing the Afghans and the Iraqis.
We are ALL complicit to crimes when we follow immoral leaders; Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, & etc. Take a moment and build a mental picture of the exploding body parts and the cries of the wounded. Can you blame citizens of the occupied country for hating us? Then consider what you would do if foreign soldiers invaded your sancuary (home) killing men, women and helpless American children.
Soldiers are another military weapon that will kill, much like a cannon, in any direction that they are directed. Mercenary soldiers are just hired killers will commit any crime that they are paid to commit. Mercenary soldiers are they lowest form of life.
You know, after reading some of the self-righteously frigid posts here, I'd call William Calley a friend before I'd call some of you friends.
Calley must have some incurable disease. He knows that where he's going next there is no U.S. Government cover. So he's hedging his bets. Calley has been a used car salesman for many years (that's not a joke). Colin Powell knew about Mai Lai and several other "events" that took place in Nam that haven't come to light. Hey General Powell, when do you start apologizing? Oh, right, you don't have cancer yet. I guess we'll wait.
Calley was picked out as a scapegoat. Those who planned the foolish and brutal assault on Vietnam from the safety of carpeted offices have never been held to account. In fact some of them continue to advise us today. Those who participated with Calley were never charged.
Lt. Calley's apology may indicate that prison time can be redemptive. I would like to see a lot more redemption going on.
Joe
He was picked out as a scapegoat, alright. The whole war was a massacre. The whole war was "fought" with massacres. Mai Lai was just one example- it wasn't that it was One Bad Apple of an incident, it was just the one example that became famous. Carpet bombing villages doesn't count?
The French did the same thing during My Trach, also.
Before we all get to excited and start to beat the should have could have drum, just remember that the past is the past. You and I, William Calley and Pham Thanh Cong, are all the same person(s), only with a serious case of spiritual amnesia, and these warring,political, fingerpointing end games we're all playing are part of a larger pattern. Todays lesson, fear, isolation, war, bigotry and hatred suck dude! Get elevated.
"Dude get elevated" is a very condescending approach.
I spent part of every single day and night starting in 1965 in the streets and at induction centers and writing and distributing information to try to stop this war. How am I the same person as Calley? This is pseudo-spiritual drivel.
Joe
"How am I the same person as Calley?"
Joe, the sages of the ages have taught that there is good and bad in each of us, and it is only by mere chance that we wind up how we are, were we wind up, and even, how we react to it.
I'm glad you fought for what you believed in. Apparently, so do many soldiers. When we grok the sameness of us all, we can start to empathize and heal ourselves and each other.
It's not drivel.
From your point of view, it doesn't matter what one does or how one lives - because we are all good and bad etc. It's all chance. I don't agree completely. There is usually some latitude for choice. If there weren't, why bother to write here and try to influence each other about issues?
Perhaps it did not come out, but I have immense feeling and sympathy for the US soldiers who were sent to Vietnam. But I have a heck of a lot more feeling for those who faked infirmities to get out of the draft, sat around and smoked pot, fought indifferently, deserted, fragged their officers, or just plain went into a village and stopped shooting when they saw women and children. Most of them are not asked to speak at a Kiwanis Club, but struggle with their demons in obscurity.
Joe
"I'm glad you fought for what you believed in. Apparently, so do many soldiers."
The soldiers were convinced by good PR to "believe" in the war effort. It was a lie. It was a fabrication. The soldiers took that way because of peer pressure, not core beliefs. They were manipulated. I know. I joined the Air National Guard to avoid going to Nam. My dad was a retired Army Officer and though going to Nam was everyone's duty. I though there was a bullet there with my name on it. Two of my brothers went. One got shot a couple of times but came back in one piece. He tried to figure out why the fuck we were there while cruising over the rice paddies in Nam. Then He come up with the lame brain theory that we were assuring all that rice for export. He used to shoot water buffalo from the left side of the Huey gun ship (he was crew chief) just for the hell of it. He told me they also threw "gooks" off the chopper at altitude for fun. They would take side arms into Da Nang, drink and have wild west shoot outs killing locals just for the hell of it. Our government turned my brother into a criminal. He has no consciense and will steal anybody blind. He wasn't like that before he went to Nam. You see, the ones who DON'T get PTSD is because they died over there. They return as killers and con artists.
Now stop being so infernally forgiving of these people that complete the chain of perversity in our civilization. Just because you are a grunt doesn't mean you don't have principles that MUST be lived up to.
"Now stop being so infernally forgiving of these people that complete the chain of perversity in our civilization. Just because you are a grunt doesn't mean you don't have principles that MUST be lived up to."
Sorry, but it's not that I'm forgiving as much as I am willing to see that we are all people, and people do many things that seem like they are right at the time (for whatever reason) but when seen through the lens of history, aren't.
And, "infernally forgiving?" Where else but in a bastion of "progressive" thinking would forgiveness be damned?
I agree totally that the system turns people into killers. No argument. But like your brother, the vast majority of kids that go to war are not monsters. They are pawns.
We're saying the same thing, guy, I'm just looking at it from a different angle and am willing to be a little more "forgiving."
Okay, fine.
I cannot, however, put everyone in the same place. Joe was and is braver than those of us who went with the flow or dodged the bullet. And that's all I'm sayning. In my way of thinking, he has a place of honor, I do not. Sure, it's in the past but there are people, young people, listening to us old farts argue about this stuff who don't have a job and are thinking of joining the military. Ted. we HAVE to tell them what the score is. We HAVE to tell them that war is going to fuck them up big time; The media and the military sure won't do it.
40 years later!??! The effin Kiwanis Club?!? Lt. Calley, you're still a disgrace to your country. Maybe 1970 in a full-page ad in the NYT, maybe then I could believe it means something, but c'mon. Deathbed conversions are the least plausible, not to mention the least useful.
Alright, alright, benefit of doubt: I'm sure it means something to him to do it now and there, but as a world crime, it should have been dealt with in a manner consistent with it's historical place in the world, or at least it's unveiling.
Plus we were there for another five years. I don't see how this "helped" get us out at all.
An apology is not expiation nor is forgiveness an indication a person would let such an act happen again. Both, however, are a way to aid the healing process for all concerned and I am glad he expressed remorse.
Agreed. Thank you.
Hey, Rusty . . . a massacre is a massacre. Keep that thought in your head just before you check out.
Yeah, like he needs you to remind him.
Lt William Calley , is a courageous man, that has come to grips with the choices of his life.
He served in the US armed services with the a skewed honor and integrity that was allowed to exist during a time of confusion and tragedy of war.
He was a victim of a failed policy of American leaders of war, I can not pretend to understand what happens in the heat of warfare to our military men on the front lines in the heat of action.
I can not pass judgment on Lt William Calley, he has passed judgment on himself.
I support our troops, always, its our government I pass judgment on, for creating and fueling reasons for war, for sending our troops into the jaws of hells demons, and for propaganda that justify's Americans as self-righteous , judge -jury and executioners for the purpose of protecting our world interests by taking the resources of other country's using regime change.
If Pham Thanh Cong, can forgive you, then may peace be with you Lt William Calley.
Bornfreemen states that "I support the troops, always..." That mindless statement apparently does not say much about those soldiers who had the courage and the integrity to say that they would not support the occupations of Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. What Bornfreemen apparently fails to comprehend is that being in the military does not mean that one leaves one's brains behind in the civilian world. The excuse that "I was only following orders" did not impress the prosecution and judge at the Nuremberg Trials as many Germans ended up being hanged for obeying orders that they knew were wrong and illegal in World War II. Those in the military today would do well to recall the words of former Green Beret Staff Sergeant Donald Duncan who noted in the powerful documentary Sir! No Sir! [which told the story of the GI movement that took place at or near military bases both at home and abroad during the Vietnam conflict]:
" I was doing it right but I wasn't doing right."
Or they can learn from former Marine Dan Felushko who said that he did not want the words "Died, deluded in Iraq" to be written on his gravestone. Felushko joined the military soon after the attacks of 9/11/01 but justifiably deserted from his unit after he realized that the government had lied to him concerning the reasons why the United States had invaded Iraq. Those same words that Felushko had said could, of course, apply to those who are stupidly taking part in the occupation of Afghanistan.
Soldiers-say No to the empire by saying No to the occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq.
Erroll,
My general statment of supporting the troops always may seem like a mindless statment to you, but I sure am glad that our shores will never be breached by an invading army without one hell of a battle.
If you took a moment to understand what I was trying to say, you might have seen passed the my mindless statement.
I am no fan of a government that has enlisted over 800,000 unconstitutional spys in 72 fusion centers in our country over the last 7 years, and uses our military to do the dirty work for wall street and bankers, while brian washing the country under a cloud of fear / war mongering.
Many of us have been caught in the moment of poor judgement due to circumstances, our armed forces face the worst of the those moments in the heat of war.
Thats my opinion.
"but I sure am glad that our shores will never be breached by an invading army without one hell of a battle."
Granted, there has been no physical fighting since the civil war inside the country, but I would argue that we were thoroughly breached by an invading army when William Jennings Brian lost his bid for presidency at the end of the 19th century. Money predators won over democracy. Since then the value of our currency has continually descended and wealth become more concentrated in fewer hands. A country with a weak currency is a colony of the rich. We have been conquered without a shot being fired. At least in the middle ages, when the lower classes consisted of serfs, they could rise up and overthrow their lords when the lords got too greedy. We can't even do that. So you've got a gun in a drawer or a rifle in the closet, a pension, house and car. Is that freedom? Well then I guess you are free. My definition of freedom is broader. We have the technology right now to know INSTANTLY the wishes of the people on any subject at any time. Yet we are caged, herded and threatened continuously to allow our "betters" to make decisions against our will. It's quite deliberate and undemocratic. I call the present U.S. Government a fascist corporatocracy. You are free to commit suicide in various ways but make sure you are thorough because if you fail, they'll jail you or put you in a nut house. I don't call that freedom. Look around. Do you think the USSR ever admited they were a dictatorship? How about Nazi Germany? Lots of Germans thought they were free. Hey, if you never go near those bars in your cage painted like green shoots, you'd think you were free too.
Errol,
How did you say NO to Vietnam?
Man, let it go. Soldiers are pawns. While some do commit atrocities, like Calley, most do not. Most are just scared shitless kids who followed their fucked-up society's pack of lies, or in the case of Vietnam, were drafted against their will.
Shit rolls downhill in the military. The grunts don't need to get shit on by the rest of us - they have their "leaders" to do that.
Lowly grunts can't openly question their chain of command. We can and should. Most of the time, acts of mass brutality in the military are ordered by their higher-ups. Let's look to the people who are doing the ordering.
Ted Markow
You ask "How did you say NO to Vietnam"? and then state "Man, let it go". For some reason you seem to be assuming that I somehow "did say No to Vietnam". For many people, if not most people, they are permanently changed after they have been in a combat zone. I cannot forget what I did to those people which is why I have the utmost respect for those who did say NO to Vietnam by doing what I did not do back then and that is to have spoken out against that idiotic war.
You bizarrely claim that "Lowly grunts can't openly question their chain of command". I expect to see that type of comment on one of the more rabid conservative web sites than on CD. As the GI movement and in particular the documentary Sir! No Sir! should have proved, lowly grunts as well as officers could and indeed did challenge their superior officers when they believed that the orders that they received were illegal and immoral. Many went to jail for their beliefs. So please do not attempt to erroneously tell me that those in the military cannot question the orders that they are given. I strongly suggest that you read David Cortright's classic work Soldiers in Revolt: GI Resistance During the Vietnam War and Desertion and the American Soldier: 1776-2006 by Robert Fantina [as well as viewing Sir! No Sir!] which backs up that assertion.
Calley was an officer, not a lowly grunt. Sure he was a junior officer, but he was in command, and he did give the order to kill em all. I don't think the man was a draftee, most officers were volunteers at that time (unless I'm very wrong).
He looks like he's a grandfather now, one wonders if he's got grandchildren in the military and is worried that what he experienced is going to be experienced by his grandkids...
"Let's look to the people who are doing the ordering."
Yes, but the people that convice all those dumb grunts to get in the military for mother, God and country are in PR. The most henious individuals in this nation are from Madison Avenue. THEY are the main culprit responsible for shaping our predatory cultural mindset. They need to be singled out and imprisoned. Advertising needs to be more regulated than food and drugs because it has a much more deleterious effect on people and culture. And, of course, the money for Madison Avenue comes from TA-DA, Wall Street.
Couldn't agree more. The offices of Wall Street, Madison Avenue, and Congress are full of murderers with pens.
If he was giving a speech to the Kiwanis Club, he must have escaped from house. How can life in prison be house arrest?I remember when that happened. It was a pretty big deal. Now Bush/Cheney have gotten away with complicity in the deaths of over a million Iraqis, Afghans and Pakistanis, not to mention torture, illegal incarceration, and treason. Makes Calley's murder of 500+ seem pretty tame in comparison. Mr Cong is too kind. Actually, perhaps that is how we all should be. How long can one hold on to the pain? The only one suffering is the one with the long memory and no forgiveness in their heart. When an atrocity is committed, shouldn't all humanity be held accountable? How many Americans were for the invasion of Iraq BEFORE it happened, and those of us who were against it; could we have done more to stop it? We knew it was wrong, while the ones who supported it didn't. At least the public who supported it didn't, I will always think that Bush/Cheney and the administration knew it was wrong, morally and legally, but did it anyway to further their own cause.
As a Vietnam veteran, Calley's belated apology should not expiate him for the atrocity that he committed against the Vietnamese people. Calley, like Medina and Colin Powell, should have been tried as a war criminal just as Bush, Cheney and Obama should be tried as war criminals today for their crimes against the Afghan and Iraqi people.
Especially Medina and Powell.
Call me a barbarian. Damned if I'd accept his apologies for his "mistakes". Some things are unforgivable and can only be dealt with in terms of justice.
I won't call you a barbarian, but I think you just did.
We can learn things from the past (please, God, let us learn!) and Calley is but another teacher. He's done his time, both in his physical space and in his soul. Far be it for me, or you, to judge him any harsher.
The man is repenting and teaching. Why don't we put down our self-righteousness and learn.
I'll accept the barbarian label as many of the so-called barbarians had an acute sense of justice. However, I won't accept being called "self righteous". The issue has nothing to do with my own "virtue", if any. It has to do with standards and actions which are beyond the pale. Calley's actions are among them. I don't think it is possible to "do his time".
As for learning...of course. We should learn from everything. In an abstract sense, of course, he is teaching. But as a "teacher", I prefer others than mass murderers.
You're clear on what he *did*, right?
Arry, all of us are capable of atrocity, given the right preconditions. What we have to do is learn to help each other avoid those circumstances. One way, perhaps the main one, is to quit making war. I have not been in war (was a CO during the Vietnam war), but I feel strongly that war itself sets up the conditions for ordinary people to become monsters.
chriszenji -- I respect your position and it certainly is true that war brings out the worst in people. You won't find me on the side of *advocating* war, but when we start blaming the "circumstances", we're heading down a road where circumstances rather than responsibility continually gains ground. The way of the "therapeutic" society. If circumstances constitute the criteria of action, we have to continually "avoid those circumstances" in order to act responsibly by proxy rather than conviction, so to speak.
In my opinion, it's much more useful to act from conviction because circumstances are like waves spiraling off into infinity, they never end, so we're continually acting "due to circumstances".
Societies and individuals need deep convictions made solid and tangible. I don't hate Mr. Calley. I just think we are avoiding our moral responsibility by saying "let bygones be bygones". Moral responsibility sometimes has to be uncompromising, certainly at the point of someone ordering a massacre. That's a criterion of how serious our convictions are. We need those convictions if we are to remake the country and the world.
Well, I have been in a war, and you are right. From the moment the troops arrive in the combat zone they are subjected to all manner of coordinated propaganda. Slogans and songs are set up to jack up the troops. In desert storm they were selling t-shirts in the make-shift mess that read "I'd fly 10,000 miles to smoke a camel" showing a villager fleeing on a camel with a F-111 bearing down on him. The song piped everywhere was "Rock the Casaba", which, I was told later, shocked the artist when he learned it was being used to encourage war (the opposite of it's intended meaning".)
On my flights, 19 troops with machine guns appeared, to me at least, to have no adult supervision (but hopefully they formed up with an older c/o somewhere when they got off.) I was 26 and most of the "boy's with machine guns in the back were in their twenties as well. "Raghead" and "hajji" was all you ever heard over there. Young men are very impressionable, and will do anything their superiors tell them to, automatically, without weighing any moral consequence to their actions. My guess is, the hollywood image of the bad C/O getting fraggged rarely happens. But the fragging of anyone who goes against the machine,( e.g.,assassination of NFL star Pat Tillman), is the unspoken truth of what will happen to you if you speak up.
War is not a democracy. It is a profitable business for subcontractors, and most who misbehave over there will not get caught. I object to it, because the blowback to our reputation is inevitable and shameful.
That's what I think.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson